Glycol Chilling Research

[Spauld]

I know most of the club has not ventured into setting up glycol chilling for fermenters, but with the ever-warming planet, it seems my old tried-and-true method of brewing with the seasons is fast disappearing. Sitting here typing this on (yet another) balmy late December day, I’m certain that erratic cellar temperatures will now be a normal thing each brewing season, well before I’ve finished brewing all of the lagers I’d like to make each year. It seems to me that global warming is forcing my hand here.

Research into the small glycol units available on the market for home brewers, I’m seeing a LOT of really bad reviews for these units. This means it’s not something you can take back to Home Depot…but rather you are sort of stuck with the thing when it stops working. They also aren’t cheap, and of course you are usually required to purchase the pumps and controllers separately (read: NOT included in the price of the unit…despite the price being somewhere around $900!). So I’m thinking, if I’d already be buying pumps, controllers, tubing, connectors, insulation wrap, etc., it seems the only thing left is something to chill the glycol, which has me asking an obvious question; why wouldn’t I just buy one of those tiny chest freezers for a fraction of the price of a glycol chiller. What am I missing here and what experience, insight and wisdom can I get from my fellow OTMP’rs?

[galford1@gmail.com]

I looked at going the refrigerator route when I was building my system but I kept having a hard time finding one that would be deep enough yet still compact to fit and an affordable price so I ended up taking the plunge and going with one from ebay. I’m really just getting started and have a lot to learn so we will see yet if it was the best choice but I like it so far. This is the unit I picked up: https://www.ebay.com/itm/283154620355 and I added a couple Brewtech Stainless fermenters to it. Definitely not a cheap solution but it does work quite well.

[RyanP]

My understanding is that glycol on the homebrew scale offers two major advantages:

– Space. Can take up a lot less space than a fridge/freezer system.

– Precision. You can dial in your internal fermentation more quickly, particularly during high krausen, and depending on the system you can do multiple beers at different temps at the same time.

That said, price is the main drawback of glycol. Many homebrewers choose to go the fridge route, despite the advantage of glycol, mostly due to price. But as you know, most brewers will just single infusion their czech style pilsners too. Not that it’s the same thing.

[RyanP]

Nice system David, plenty of power with that one!

Jim, Ryan Carroll also has a glycol system for homebrewing, I don’t think he’s on here, you might want to ping him separately for his thoughts as well.

[chasjs]

Jim:

As you know I have a glycol chiller. I have two reasons I prefer the chiller over a temperature controlled chamber. The first is I can control multiple fermenters at different temperatures and the second was I am getting too old to move full fermenters in and out of a chamber.

Your question seems to be a hot topic from time to time on Homebrewtalk. The real answer is whatever works for you.

You are correct, none of this is cheap (is anything cheap in this hobby).

There are a lot of plans around to make your own chiller using a small window AC unit.

You could certainly purchase a small chest freezer and put your glycol reservoir in there. Probably put a Johnson control on it to hold the temp around 28 degrees F.

I was wondering if you could get a refrigeration unit to help cool your cellar.

[Spauld]

All great feedback, thanks guys. …and it’s nice “meeting” you David, I don’t think we’ve met in person, have we? And nice set-up you have there! How log have you had your Icemaker 100?

Chuck – your comment on futher cooling my cellar was another thought I’ve had through the years, but then I do keep all of my fermenting lagers at differnt primary temps, based on yeast strain. So if I went that route, I guess a heat mat/controller on each conical could address that fine-tuning. That’s basically what I do now, just get the cellar down to about 40F and heat each fermenter as needed.

My thinking with the freezer unit would be to add the glycol directly to the freezer (I guess some have just dumped it directly into the freezer – yikes!), but I’m reading that this is the only way to get it cold enough for the freezer to actually work as a glycol chiller; the coolant needs to be in direct contact with the freezer walls(???).

Finally, both of the points Ryan made are valid in my case since my cellar is quite small. My thinking was to get the smallest chest freezer they make (and the only one that ‘might’ fit down my cellar hatch! Not sure the freezer would really have the umpf to chill the glycol as needed, particulary during high krauesen, even for a lager they can heat up a few degrees. I’d like to actually see a glycol chiller in action!

….the other thing I’m wondering is how close a glycol unit needs to be to the fermenters. It seems the sensor cables would need to be at least 15′ long in order for my cellar configuration to work for all of my fermenters.

[chasjs]

Jim:

I do not think the glycol mixture would have to be in contact with the freezer walls. You just have to keep it at the right temperature. My chiller is a half horsepower and it has no problem. The highest thermal load is during cold crashing, maintaining a low temperature in the fermenter is not usually a problem. You cellar is cool anyway so you are not fighting to maintain a low temp in a high ambient situation.

After Christmas you are welcome to come over and see my chiller in action. It is not very exciting – about the same as watching paint dry.

Chuck

[Spauld]

Thanks Chuck, just parroting what I’ve read on various forums. True that I would not be cold crashing very often (probably only my Trappist/Belgian styles, just prior to bottling). The more I research it, the more I’m intrigued with building my own. The only part of that giving me pause is the overriding of the origianl air conditioner controls, but I can think of at least one, maybe a couple of OTMPr’s that could likely help with that. the only other element that’s dicey is the bending/coaxing of the condenser coils out of the original housing and stretched into a small cooler.
The danger there is creating a leak in the coolant line. I will say that the homemade versions are reputed to work really well but they look pretty crappy. I guess I don’t care about that too much since I was planning to put it in the east bottle storage area anyway, then just run the lines and cables through the wall.

I’ve noticed the tiny glycol pumps are way more expensive than they need to be and wondering if I can get away with any submersible pump. I think the GPM ratings are quite low, like maybe 3 or 4gpm. A tiny aquarium or fountain pump might be the answer. I’m really cheaping out here all of the sudden eh?!! LOL My thrifty Scot genetics are kicking in.

[gozer]

Martin (Homebrew Challenge) has a video about the Blichmann Glycol Chiller:

Charles Bland | BJCP project | On Tap

[chasjs]

Jim:

I go through the same thing with the cost of things but usually end up spending the money because I justify it by believing I am avoiding a hassle of something failing.

Spike has a pump for $42 they claim they thoroughly tested.

[Spauld]

Yeah I know Chuck, I can usually justify the price as well. Case in point, this weekend’s mid-50’s forecast has me delaying the brewing of this season’s first lager by two days. It’s annoying, but helps to justify any expendiure for a glycol system.

OK, on to more FAQ’s; when you think about the glycol thing, we’re basically just pumping cold water. I’ve read that you should use as little glycol as possible since water has much better thermal properties and the glycol is there just to keep the water from freezing. The recent Five Star presentation spoke to glycol for home brewing (great timing on that one!) and they suggested you can even use alcohol in a glycol system if you like. Again, the idea is to get the percentage to where the fluid doesn’t freeze. All of this taken into consideration, I found a fairly cheap submersible pump with the proper GPM at Amazon for $10 each. I figure at that price point, I can afford to experiment a little.

So with the pump part of the equipment/parts list question settled (for now), I’m on to other fact-findings. If you guys have any comments on the following bulletpoints, please chime in!

1. Tubing type: Again, this is probably a moot point since anything that moves water is “probably” going to be fine to use, so the cheapest item might be the way to go (PEX or schedule 80 PVC?). I think I would like to transistion to silicone at the fermenter just due to how flexible it is. but that might represent the last 18″ of the run.

2. Inside Diameter: This is the biggest question I have at the moment. Knowing that a larger ID probably puts less pressure on the pump and increases flow, but I’m sure there’s a formula here and I’ve found nothing online that specifically addresses this. What size lines are you guys using and for what distance of travel?

3. Leakage during change-overs: When it’s time to move the product from the fermenter those lines will be disconnected. How do you avoid loss of glycol (leakage)? I assume getting air into the lines is of little concern since it’s an open loop; any air bubbles will be pushed back to the reservior next time you fire up the system? My thinking was to use quick disconnects at the fermenter end (and trying not to tip the fermenter lid/cooling coil assembly so as to dump coolant out of the coil when cleaning the fermenter/cooling coil.

[chasjs]

Jim:

Penguin recommends 40-50% glycol mixture. The specific heat of a 40% glycol mixture is about .9 where water is about 1.0. At a homebrew scale it is not enough to worry about the thermodynamic properties.

Tubing, I use just plain vinyl tubing. I use 1/4 and 3/8 inch ID. I would not go too big because you will start having a lot of volume of coolant in the tubing. Most of your submersible pumps are probably only pumping 400 gph, should not be much resistance or line loss at those flow rates. Wrap the tubing with insulation. I am only going 6 feet.

Leakage – I use the SS Brewtech Quick Disconnects with valves. When you disconnect the valves close and prevent leakage – I highly recommend. Expensive but I have priced others and these are in the ball park. US Plastics sells them also.

FTSs | Quick Disconnect Kit

[Spauld]

Thanks Chuck, yeah I saw the ones at U.S. Plastic, I think that was the friendliest price yet. I just wanted to make sure the fittings had an automatic shut-off. I purchased some of the stainless QD’s for a different project and neither side of the equation came with that, so I had to install shutoff valves!

I also just heard back from BrewHardware this morning and they suggest 3/8 i.d. I think that makes sense since the cooling coils for the fermenters are 3/8″ ID, so it doesn’t really make sense to go larger anyway. I think fabricating the supply lines will be part of the fun, so looking forward to that element of the project.

[galford1@gmail.com]

Hi Spauld,

No, we haven’t had the chance to meet as of yet. I’ve been lurking on here for a couple years but up until now my build for my system at home has been under construction. 3 years later and its FINALY ready! Going to make my first attempt at home this weekend in fact. (I have a lot to learn and its now been a couple years since I last brewed anything) Anyone interested in giving me lessons on my setup? 🙂 I’m a tech guy so I learn pretty quick.

I had hoped by now things would have returned to a little more “normal” and been able to meet up with everyone but we have all seen how that has been working out thus far.

My Chiller I have only used a couple times thus far but I did fire it back up last night to test it out. Everything worked, just needed to add a couple of gallons of distilled water to top off the glycol tank from evaporation, not bad considering it has an 8 gallon tank 50/50 mix and sat unused for a couple years. I did add an aquarium tank pump to the reservoir just for recirculation in the tank to aid with moving the fluid around but this is probably overkill. Only complaint I have is the controller doesn’t do F* but that’s not really an issue since C* is technically more accurate.

Hope to meet you all soon.
Dave

[Spauld]

OK, gotcha David. I look forward to meeting you and seeing your set-up. I’d be happy to discuss anything you have questions about regarding brewing. I’m no expert but I’m happy to chat as you see fit (take what you can use and discard the rest! LOL). I’m also brewing this weekend and have a helles on my schedule for Saturday morning. What are you brewing this weekend?

Regarding the gylcol project, I’m sort of a diy’r, and I’ve seen LOTS of tutorials on the homemade versions. I found a great deal on a 5000btu window a/c unit, so I’m going to try to build one. Currently clearing out space in an area adjacent to my cellar for the project. I think it should be fun to build. If it ends up being a waste of time, I can always unplug the homemade unit and purchase something already complete, then just plug in my chiller lines to the new unit. At least two thirds of the project is retrofitting my conicals and installing the chiller lines, so.

You should attend the next meeting if you feel comfortable doing so. I think the vast majority of the club is well vaccinated, so that always helps. If you are not on Evan’s mailing list, let us know if you’d like to be so you can receive the meeting announcements. We can always use another brewer in the group! The more people we can bounce around info to/from, the better it is for everyone’s personal growth as a brewer. Regardless, you should plan to pop over and have a bier with me in the Bier Barn. Saturday afternoons are usually the ideal time for me, but I can be flexible. Ya know, my weeks typically go like this: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Funday and Sunday! LOL

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