How do you fine tune your recipes? Or do you?

[chasjs]

I am just getting the point of trying to improve some of my recipes. I started this hobby by copying the recipes of others found on the Internet. Of course I found that some of the recipes (or at least how I made them) were not as wonderful as originally touted.

I wanted to hear from others how they fine tune their recipes.

For example, right now I have an IPA recipe I am happy with but I am changing small things to try to make it better – latest batch I increased the bittering hops to see if going from 60 IBU to 70 (as calculated by Beer Smith) would make a difference. My goal is to get my own unique recipe that I am really happy with the results.

[evan.sherlock]

This is a great question! I know the challenge and the struggle of many of the things you can run into when getting into recipe formulation. There are really three things that come to my mind when improving upon recipes:

1. What is the source of your original recipe and do you trust this recipe and the review of it? Do you trust this brewer on their skill set in brewing and knowledge?
2. How confident are you in the consistency of your method and procedure of brewing?
3. Are you making clear and definitive decisions about where you are taking your beers? What are the goals?

I know I was very guilty of finding multiple recipes online and assuming these were good recipes to start with when I got more serious about brewing. In doing this you are giving a lot of credit to basically an unaccredited source. Sure, I have ran into some good recipes but I find the internet somewhat a crap shoot of a place for a starting place.

Now years into my brewing I am more likely to review a book for the classical definitions of the style. Books like Brewing Classic Styles or Designing Great Beers come to mind. I am also more likely to keep things rather simple when I start and making calculated additions one at a time. If time allows this is when small batch brewing 2-3 gallons at a time can really help dial in beers.

This is also where brewers logs and tasting notes can give you the whole picture and put things into perspective. The more data you have on the brew day and the minor variations and adjustments you can make really can paint the picture about your process and the impacts that are made from these minor alterations. Tasting notes can also do the same for you but on the other end. Are you confident in your perceptions of your beer and your ability to taste the ingredients one by one in the beer? Keeping logs or your notes and others feedback can be the key to getting insights into the profile and perception of the beer. In your tasting notes give yourself feedback on everything and remember to offer yourself suggestions or considerations.

Of the things that really helped me grow as a brewer were learning how to taste beer and then really dial in and lock down my process and have each process in control. This is how brewers end up with so much equipment and tools/instruments. I feel that this is how the brewer can exert total control over their processes and all of these processes can be called into questioning and necessity frequently. Without being open to make alterations to your processes and procedures your brewing sessions can become stale and not pushed to be better.

I am interested to know how other brewers approach this topic as I feel most of us are after some real go-to recipes in our catalogue. Or if people have some real go to recipes they have developed; how did you get there and what processes/tools/controls helped you achieve this desired outcome?

[Spauld]

Hey Chuck, Evan makes some good points. I might just add that recipe refinement for me has been (and perhaps should be) a very SLOW process, mainly since the only way to truly understand the effects of an adjustment is to change only ONE thing at a time.

[evan.sherlock]

Jim, I am interested in knowing how many versions/alterations would you say you made to a recipe before calling it complete? or do you consider any of your beers complete? What would the period of time look like while the beer is in development through completion?

The reason I ask Jim, is I know you probably have the largest catalog of recorded brew sessions in the club. Your longevity in the game could aggregate out some interesting results and findings if someone was to pour over your brew logs and data.

I will point to one of my beers I would still say is in development is my Southern English Brown. In version #1 you can see how I started with a very simple beer. I had notes that indicated I wanted more complex notes to the body and then by the time version #6 came around the beer looked wildly different. Sure I have not brewed this beer since 2017 but improvements can still be made to this beer. I do know that even better record keeping on my part will drive this beer to be the best version of itself one day; for now, I know I have a good beer in the arsenal to go to.

What comes to mind is also how many beers out there that are commercial beers that would rank around the low to mid 30’s? A lot of them, actually I would say a majority of the entirety of the craft beer scene is built on these type beers. They are solid beers with no technical issues but they don’t stand out from the crowd when in comparison. Then look at how few beers in each style can break into the mid 40’s or better, not many. These stylistic flagship beers could have easily taken the brewery and brewer years if not decades or in some European cases centuries of development. The odds are stacked against the homebrewer because of the scale and scope of how we dabble in this world of complexities in controlling a wild product.

Chuck, your endeavor is a noble one and you are not alone in wanting these results out of your beers. I would guess most homebrewers don’t go down these paths as they can be long and lonely while in the development of their flagship beers. Most homebrewers are at peace with the results of their craft after a certain point, there is nothing wrong with that. Don’t let any of this dissuade you; the challenge of brewing amazing beer has moving goal posts that even professional brewers struggle to keep going after.

[chasjs]

Evan and Jim:

Thanks for your comments. Evan, I totally agree on your notes taking comments and I am working to be better about it. I use Beer Smith software and I will say that it is one of the better investments that I have made (I know Brewersfriend is quite good also). It really has helped with the note taking and also the keeping my brew days very consistent.

I am trying to learn more about beer tasting and I am advancing on it but have a way to go.

Jim, I hear you about impatience. Initially in this hobby I just wanted to brew some beer and see the results. Over time I realize that some of my efforts resulted in some beers that I actually liked to drink (some I do not). I have learned to slow down.

Control over the process is what I am striving for – my next investment is a temperature control system for fermentation. I have a room that stays in the 64 to 67 degree range which is working for ales but limits me on some other types.

[Spauld]

Hey guys…

Chuck, I tend to be an inpatient guy, so brewing has been good therapy for me! Temperature control is certainly a huge factor in recipe repeatability.

Evan, I have several recipes I now consider ‘complete’, but the vast majority are still evolving. One thing that I do that I’d guess most folks don’t is that I keep a running critique of all my recipes. In my view, it’s part of that crucial record keeping. After nearly 500 batches, it’s helpful to go back and read my impressions how any given recipe turned out. ….yeah, I’m a total beer geek🤪

[Sam]

evan.sherlock wrote:

Tasting notes can also do the same for you but on the other end. Are you confident in your perceptions of your beer and your ability to taste the ingredients one by one in the beer?

Evan, are there aids/guides to help learn identify ingredients by taste? I would like to better identify flavors and aromas in beers. I enjoy the iterative process of making a beer and (attempting to only) change one thing to see how the beer changes, but it would help to shorten the possibly years long learning curve by knowing how to evaluate a beer.

Serving:
Genmaicha Brown Ale
Munich Dunkel
IPA

Conditioning:

Fermenting:
House Amber

Planning:
?

[Spauld]

I don’t know if this would be helpful to anyone else, but I’ve attached my “critiques”. ….I suppose it might be mildly entertaining 🙂 I’ve had no formal training on tasting beer, but through the years I feel like I somehow learned what changes made on brew day and during fermentation will do to the final flavor profile….at least to some degree. Keeping the critiques helps me remember how a given recipe turned out (since memory begins to fade after a while). I can then go back and compare recipe sheets for the same bier style to see what adjustments to make, if a brew gets a 10+ rating, it’s unlikely I’d change anything other than ONE factor. For example I may want to just try a different strain of yeast, to see how it compares to the original.

Attachments:

1. Bier-Critiques-batch-257-and-up.doc

[evan.sherlock]

Jim, I have to say that I really appreciate the taste scale you developed.

Bier Ratings:

Exceptional = 10 You would look forward to having another right away!
Very Good = 9 You would enjoy drinking this bier, but might not seek it out first.
Good = 8 Drinkable, but you may dislike something about this beir.
Fair = 7 Drinkable, but only if you REALLY want a beer.
No go = 6 (or lower) You may choke this down to be polite, or leave it unconsumed.

This scale is genius because it is so damn simple and doesn’t confuse itself with complexities and nuances that can be found in beer. Maybe we should institute this into the club reviews of other beers to some degree.

Sam that is a great question you asked. I don’t know if I am the most skilled taster in the club, certainly, others have certifications that exceed anything I have attained. For me, the revelation came more so when I gained a language of how to talk about the flavors. Without some vocabulary to describe how to talk about beer we are left with very little in how to discuss our beers. Additionally, if we have a common language to discuss beer we can also reverse engineer parts of our process to find out where we went wrong. Acetaldehyde is one of the elements that once I knew how to discuss it and what to look for, then I was able to figure out where in my process I went wrong; it imparts a cidery taste that I used to get in my beers when I used a different transfer method that let some air in.

When I was taught brewing one of the items I was told to always do is taste the ingredients and smell the ingredients. Grain I will always eat a few to get some perceptions of the raw taste. Hops will always get a big whiff of before adding to the boil. Smash beers (single malt / single hop) can be a good place to start to identify hop tastes. Or doing minimalistic beers like Ron Pattinson does in his recipes can help identify what flavors are coming from where. Split batches and using two different yeast strains can also help you develop some of your knowledge of what characteristics the yeast is imparting on the final product.

I would also add that in the 5 years that I have been part of the club the beer tastings at the meetings really helped me identify what I need to be going after in my recipes. Talking to others about how they achieved certain tastes and profiles in their beers and how this all translates to process.

Some of the richness I find in homebrewing is that you can give the same recipe to two different brewers and if you were to come back and then taste the samples after fermentation you would have two different brews. This is because of how each of us has our own process and our methods in brewing. Sort of like a bad golf swing can be accounted for in the game it isn’t really till you iron out your own issues do you find out why you were missing the entire time.

As I have contributed to this thread and reflected on my voyage in recipe formulation I would have to say that this is one of the most complex topics in brewing because it encapsulates everything we do. All of us want to make award-winning beers that can knock the socks off the others in the club. There is no simple answer to how to get to the end other than conducting experiments and trials and then discussing and reflecting; which is probably why all of us sought out a club to join to grow and become better brewers.

[Sam]

Jim and Evan,
Thanks for the comments and tasting notes. I like Jim’s ratings also. My goal is to brew at least an 8!

I agree that a common vocabulary is important. Thanks for the list; it will be a good place to start associating words with impressions. I’ve also purchased Randy Mosher’s 2nd Ed to see if it helps me learn to describe what I sense.

I’ve done a couple off flavor tastings. They were informative, but those flavors were so strong they were mostly overwhelming. I can’t identify any beer I’ve had that had so obvious flaws, so I’m not sure I can detect subtle flaws.

I also enjoy tasting grains to help decide what to select. I love smelling hops, but I don’t always smell the same characters in raw hops that appear in finished beer. I plan to start making some hop teas just to sample.

As I’ve started all grain, I try to keep the grain bill to 2 or 3 grains and then decide how I might want the flavor/aroma to change, and then change one grain, hop, or yeast to experience the result. It would be fun to get a couple 3g carboys/fermentors to do side-by-side yeast comparison. More stuff to do.

One of my primary interests in joining OTMP is to discuss the beers at the meetings to see how others describe what we are sampling. I know we all have differences in taste and smell sensitivities so there is always that to consider. And I hope that others will be honest if they detect something in my beers that isn’t quite right to help me better identify it in the future.

Serving:
Genmaicha Brown Ale
Munich Dunkel
IPA

Conditioning:

Fermenting:
House Amber

Planning:
?

[Author]

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